A champagne socialist reflects on Western culture and the Universe... and whilst gazing at his navel, he comes up with a lot of useless lint. It is the fruits of this navel-gazing that form the substance of this blog.
;> Dr, I've got whiplash
Published on April 21, 2005 By Champas Socialist In Politics
I grew up a very proud Australian. I learned Aussie slang terms that are becoming obsolete, I deliberately developed a broad Aussie accent and I became one of the very few who knows the 2nd verse to the national anthem.

I grew up under the Hawke-Keating Government. Although I’m old enough now to recognise the emptiness of some of their words, it was largely their example that made me proud. They spoke of reconciling our differences, of breaking down the barriers and tensions that exist between Aboriginal people and Australia’s more recent arrivals. We acknowledged the special history and culture of the most ancient surviving culture in the world. We also acknowledged that the land of Australia was not our ancestors’ to take for us and so we gave native title rights to those who should have inherited the land from their parents and grandparents. It wasn’t just that Hawke and Keating said all this, but that they regularly reinforced these messages as an important part of what it means to be an Australian. It was something we were proud of and it was something that was reinforced to me as a child. This was the example I wanted to follow.

Hawke and Keating also spoke of learning to value the knowledge offered to us by our people’s diverse backgrounds. They spoke of celebrating the many different cultural practices that exist in Australia.

I learned from this example. It made me proud to be an Australian. To me, being an Australian meant trying to put a few past mistakes right. It meant abandoning the mistake of the White Australia Policy and openly embracing a multicultural future. It meant celebrating our differences as something that makes us unique and interesting.

Unlike many other countries who force their citizens to adhere to specific cultural and religious practices, we valued our right to be different from each other. Unlike other countries who engage in a monoculture, we were a shining example to the world of how people of differing backgrounds could love living together.

Australia has a culture of its own. We aren’t dull, and we aren’t brash. We are an honest, fair-minded, hard-working people. That’s what we have in common. But within the geographical boundaries of this island, there is room not just for the cities, but also for Aboriginal camps and villages who adhere to a more communal lifestyle than the Anglo inhabitants. There is room not just for farming communities, but for foreign language speaking immigrants to speak a variety of languages. There is room for people of varying religions to practise and there is room for Chinatowns, where I love going. There is room for us all to learn about each other’s cultures and languages.

And that’s what I love about multicultural Australia. I love having friends who are Muslims, Trinidadian, Aboriginal, Italian etc. I love finding out about the special things they know because of their backgrounds, that I could never learn otherwise. I love walking the streets and hearing all sorts of interesting sounding languages. I love practising French when I meet French immigrants.

And that’s AustraliA. Australia IS Multicultural.If you don’t love it, LEAVE!



That includes you, John Howard!

Comments (Page 2)
3 Pages1 2 3 
on Apr 24, 2005
In fact, across the world, that used to be the norm, to have lots of languages and dialects in small areas.


And first, steamships, then the airplane and finally the Internet is erasing that. This is not a diabolical scheme, it is just the fact that no longer do just diplomats need to communicate with one another, so to do ordinary people.

And of course as LW points out, the lack of communication was often the catalyst of some of the worst wars this planet has ever seen or will see (in scale).

No one is legislating a single language. Necessity is causing it.
on Apr 24, 2005
Why do you appear so scared of diversity, LW? There is a huge richness to be found, both in the similarities within and the differences between the various languages of the world. Imposing a monolingual culture in any particular corner of it is ostensibly forcing a specific, restricted, culturally dictated view of the world upon its members.


For crying out loud, buy a fucking plane ticket and go take a vacation. Go to China, go to Japan, go to the Congo, go to Syria, go to Italy, go to Brazil, go to Mexico, and go to Indonesia. You're not going to find any of your beloved diversity if every country has to be equally diverse within itself.
on Apr 24, 2005
'as they are here at our invitation'

And here's the key. LW appears to see two distinct strata of citizenship - (1) her use of 'we' / 'our', identifying supposedly bona fide citizens, and (2) immigrants. The former (however they might actually be identified; maybe we should ask the native Americans or the aboriginal people of Australia) 'invite' the latter to come and live with them (hmm, I don't remember the native Americans or the aboriginal people of Australia doing very much of THAT, but never mind), whereupon the latter are obliged to spend an indeterminate amount of time grovelling in gratitude.

Needless to say, I don't start from that premise, so I don't arrive at the same conclusions. I'm can't even get angry about it - actually, I'm really rather sorry for LW, because she has an opportunity to make her world fundamentally richer, but her fear prevents her from doing so.
on Apr 24, 2005
And here's the key. LW appears to see two distinct strata of citizenship - (1) her use of 'we' / 'our', identifying supposedly bona fide citizens, and (2) immigrants. The former (however they might actually be identified; maybe we should ask the native Americans or the aboriginal people of Australia) 'invite' the latter to come and live with them (hmm, I don't remember the native Americans or the aboriginal people of Australia doing very much of THAT, but never mind),


Funny, I don't recall the "Native Americans" ever thinking of themselves as one people. Or possessing 7 million square miles of land between 7 million people by racial birthright.

I also wonder if those Siberian nomads asked the permission of those people here before them.

Who were the first Americans?

Study: "Native Americans" Weren't the first
on Apr 24, 2005
'Funny, I don't recall the "Native Americans" ever thinking of themselves as one people. Or possessing 7 million square miles of land between 7 million people by racial birthright.'
Hooray. My point exactly.
on Apr 24, 2005
I also wonder if those Siberian nomads asked the permission of those people here before them.


--I remember reading somewhere that out of every "native american" tribe that lived in north america...less than 1% are actually originally from N.A., that they didn't migrate from where ever....
on Apr 24, 2005
'--I remember reading somewhere that out of every "native american" tribe that lived in north america...less than 1% are actually originally from N.A., that they didn't migrate from where ever....'

You may well be right. The history of the world is one of migration and cultural flux. Therefore, particularly in light of the 'shrinking world' phenomenon arising from advances in transport and communication, for Australia / America / anywhere else you care to mention to suddently start getting puritanically defensive about THEIR land / culture / language is not only futile, but just a few thousand years too late, don't you think?
on Apr 24, 2005
First of all, I'm sorry I didn't reply to the replies till now. I was out of town. But, following is my response to all the crap that followed.

Whipsy dipsy doodah quoted this draginol gem:
Australia is 95% white, 4% Asian, and 1% everything else which includes the aboriginals that survived Australia's genocide attempts. So while there may indeed be African descendents in Australia, there aren't bloody many of them. Certainly not enough to make that critical mass required to have a distinct and seperate, independent culture.


It was this quote that got me a bit off track here, Champas, but I had to respond. First of all, it doesn't matter if there is only 1% or 3 people. A separate and distinct and independent culture is a culture nonetheless, and no less worthy of recognition and respect. To think that we, as European decendents could wipe out most of a culture, then say not enough exists to be recognized is fucked up. It was dumbass on drag's part, and totally moronic for the dippy whip to quote it.

Then the moron goes on.........
dabe, dabe, dabe...whatever are we going to do about you?


My response: F*cking nothing, you condescending lowlife sack of racist crap. You espouse a superiority to anyone other than white, just because our country, which we stole from the Native Americans is now predominantly white. That's how I come to the conclusion I come to, and why my responded to Champas Socialist's article, which, by the way, was excellent, but you had to go and pollute with your bull.

And do you think that maybe just once, on a topic having nothing to do with Bush, you can get through a post without using the terms facism,deathmonger, christo-facist, neocon death cult, or without engaging in Bush bashing?


Nope, not when you go and pollute with your white trash garbage.

Champas replies.........
dabe, I've heard a lot of things said about you lately, mostly derogatory. All I can say is I see little evidence of what you are often accused of in this well-thought out response.


Thanks, Champas. I did try to write a coherent response. And, I do stand by what I wrote. It did digress from your original topic, but it's what came to my mind at the time.

Then, the guy dope steps in........
Your condescending attitude towards LW and your slavish fawning of Dabe not with standing, I would hope that by opening this can of worms, you can at least discuss it intelligently.


Oh please, you can't be serious. It's way to easy to condescend to whipsh*t. Champas opened an excellent topic, and discussed it intelligently. Your remark adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, other than to come to the dipshit's aid.

He goes one to blabber.............
No, you slammed LW (at least leading up to that point) and fawned over Dabve, whose point was stupid and wrong to say the least. it was Anti American, and so you immediately liked it. That is who Dabe is. If it is Pro America, it must be bad. I think it has something to do with self loathing, but then I am no Psychiatrist.


Guy, as far as I know, I have never personally attacked you. Till now. How dare you call my point, which was very well thought out, stupid and anti-American. You stick to your fascist, racist buddies, and call any dissent from your sicko bushie bull anti-American, because you cannot stand to see a differing opinion. It apparently makes your head explode. What kind of idiot do you think you are? You, you ain't no shrink, but you sure can shirk a sane response. There is nothing self-loathing about me. I am American. A proud one, but not like you and your jingo jerk buddies. I see our government gone awry. I fight to set some things straight. You apparently think trashing the environment, killing Iraqis, redistributing wealth upward, and using religion to further your dubya buddies' fascist and racist causes, is acceptable behavior. You are so wrong.

This country was built with immigrants, not meaning to dismiss the genocide perpetrated against Native Americans. It will always have immigrants. Some will learn English. Some won't. Some will take advantage of what our society has to offer; some won't. Just like our own native born Americans. Some will be white; others will be people of color. Just like our own native born Americans. Some will practice Christianity, some Judaism, some Buddism, some Islam, etc. Just like our own native born Americans. Etc., etc., etc. Whether you like it or not, we are a diverse nation. Whether you like it or not, Champas is proud of his nation's diversity, regardless of whether it is as diverse as the USA. That's immaterial. For cryin' out loud. And, HOLY SHIT.

Guy goes on............
And of course as LW points out, the lack of communication was often the catalyst of some of the worst wars this planet has ever seen or will see (in scale).


I beg to differ. It's not the language barrier that causes war. That is such a specious argument. In fact, more wars have been fought over religion and land grabs and water, and now oil. Not language. And, to advocate diplomacy now, after supporting the invasion of Iraq, killing thousands and thousands of people, all based on lies, just because we didn't want to practice any more diplomacy, even though the weapons inspectors were doing their jobs, even though other countries were pleading with us not to abandon diplomatic actions and economic sanctions, and not to say diplomacy and a single language is the answer is so mindboggling hypocritical. Shocking even. Again, HOLY SHIT! What is wrong with you righties?

Now, in closing, I'd again like to applaud Champas for this article, for Furry's replies. Good stuff.

and thank yous go to whipster, dimguy, and ED for showing us yet again what lowlife, racist, jingoistic nonsensical small-minded, parochial, narrow little mindless wonders they really are.
on Apr 25, 2005
Okay LW, brief responses only warranted here, I think:

'I'm bi-lingual myself, (German, and of course, English) and the fact that I learned how to speak German has had zero effect on my "world view." I suppose I could learn Japanese, French, or any other language with the same effect....zero.'
Again, I'm sorry for you, because in having such a closed mind approach, I believe you're missing out big time.

While you and others are busy trading insults, I'd still like an answer to my question. How does learning a second language force "a specific, restricted, culturally dictated view of the world upon its members"?
I didn't say that. I said that forcing everybody to communicate using a single language does this.

And do you truly believe that people engaged in decisions of life and death importance should not be able to communicate with the vast majority of the people they treat?
I didn't say that either. Yes, communication is important. But depending upon the part of the USA in which you live and work, you might just find 'the vast majority' of the people you treat more comfortable speaking Spanish (to cite just one example).

Should Americans have to learn various Indian dialects in order to be sure they recieve proper health care?
I didn't say that either.

And do you truly believe that learning a second language restricts a person, rather than expanding their horizons?
I didn't say that either.
on Apr 25, 2005
'And making fluency in English a legal requirement to practice medicine in a predominantly English speaking nation is not "forcing" anyone to do anything, really. They could refuse, and be refused a license to practice.'
I guess we're all square, LW. Apparently, I don't inderstand the word 'fluency', and you don't understand the word 'forcing'.
on Apr 25, 2005
Champas - Australia is about to get even more multicultural; the Dutch are fleeing Holland in record numbers and moving to Canada, Australia, and the USA. Care to guess why? I'll give you three guesses:

a) Australia's wonderful multiculturalism policy.
Holland is overrun by Muslim immigrants to the point that the Dutch don't even recognize their own country anymore.
c) Any time a Dutchman speaks out against immigration he gets a cap popped in his ass (Pim Fortuyn) and/or gets his throat slashed by an Allah freak (Van Gogh).

I just read that immigration is far and away the number one issue in the UK election. White people are fleeing the cities in droves in the UK due to immigration. While the citizens of my country and your country may still be under the spell of political correctness, i think this is a precursor to what's down the road for us.

David St. Hubbins
Good article on Dutch emigration: tinyurl.com/7gd5n
on Apr 25, 2005
Should Americans have to learn various Indian dialects in order to be sure they recieve proper health care?
I didn't say that either.


Then what LW posted IS true! If your going to be a health care professional in the "US", learn to speak the lingo. And just an FYI you do realize that to become a permanent citizen of this country you are required by law to be fluent in written AND spoken english?




Welcome to the naturalization home page. Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is conferred upon a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). The general requirements for administrative naturalization include:

a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.



http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/
on Apr 25, 2005
Whip: Should Americans have to learn various Indian dialects in order to be sure they recieve proper health care?
Canary: I didn't say that either.
drmiler: Then what LW posted IS true! If your going to be a health care professional in the "US", learn to speak the lingo.

Hmm, interesting 'logic' , drmiler. Care to fill in the gaps?
on Apr 25, 2005
David St. Hubbins (above) suggests that the Dutch are leaving Holland in record numbers for one of three reasons:
'a) Australia's wonderful multiculturalism policy.
Holland is overrun by Muslim immigrants to the point that the Dutch don't even recognize their own country anymore.
c) Any time a Dutchman speaks out against immigration he gets a cap popped in his ass (Pim Fortuyn) and/or gets his throat slashed by an Allah freak (Van Gogh).'

Yet, from the very article he cites, there is another major reason, which he conveniently omits altogether from his argument (emphasis my own):
'For some, the desire to leave is a response to the immigrants themselves, and what many people here view as their violent, divisive, non-Dutch ways. But just as many Dutch immigrants seem to be alarmed that immigration has turned their countrymen into angry, intolerant nationalists.'

on Apr 25, 2005
Whip: Should Americans have to learn various Indian dialects in order to be sure they recieve proper health care?
Canary: I didn't say that either.
drmiler: Then what LW posted IS true! If your going to be a health care professional in the "US", learn to speak the lingo.

Hmm, interesting 'logic' , drmiler. Care to fill in the gaps?


Come on, this is NOT rocket science:
If your saying that we should not have to learn the Indian language to recieve proper health care then it stands to reason that they need to speak english for us to recieve proper health care. As a side note I notice that you "ignored" th last part of my post.
3 Pages1 2 3